Sw pats and nazi propaganda ('twas: Re: [Patents] free sw removed from german website ...)

[critto@poczta.wp.pl (Krzysztof Sobolewski)]

From:                   PILCH Hartmut <phm@a2e.de>
To:                     Krzysztof Sobolewski <critto@poczta.wp.pl>
Copies to:              <patents@liberte.aful.org>
Subject:                Re: Sw pats and nazi propaganda ('twas: Re:  
[Patents] free sw
        removed from german website ...)
Date sent:              Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:29:35 +0200 (CEST)

> > though I don't know what happened to that man which published
> > it(has he been extradited ? Or not?),
> 
> He travelled to Germany and was arrested there.
> 
> > publishing of nazi propaganda is one of the cases when it is justified
> > for the courts to 'exceed' their jurisdictions. The more the (neo)nazi
> > fear of justice, the better it is. I hold the position that there shout
> > NOT be any freedom for nazis; oh, let them gas themselves. Or let them
> > shoot themselves in their heads. Yes, they are free to do it. But not to
> > call to gas or shoot others, only for being Poles, Jews, Gypsies,
> > Russians or so. I *HATE* nazis. And I hope you hate them, too.
> 
> The question here is not whether making a free speech exception for "hate
> propaganda" is more justified than one for "intellectual property
> infringement"

OK, I understand. Furthermore, I want to correct what I said. I've 
checked the info about that 'hate propagator' and I've found out, that 
it's about Frederick Toeben and his 'Holocaust denial' site in 
Adelaide, Australia. Well, while I'm in favor of banning (or cracking 
and rm / -rf deleting) any site that really calls to beat up, kill etc. 
the ordinary, innocent people, I am NOT in favor of banning the 
'Holocaust denial'. Sure, such denial is a big lie. But the lie doesn't 
have to be banned; as Thomas Jefferson put it "Truth can stand by 
itself".

> The question here is whether and to what extent German courts can decide
> on matters concerning an australian website of an australian citizen.

Each court _may_ decide on everything -- however, it has none but  
local meaning.
 
> These two questions must stay independent of each other.  Matters would
> become far to complicated for anyone to decide if they can be mixed up.
> 
> > > Thus things have become very uncalculable for an ordinary citizen.
> >
> > Not for me, Hartmut (though I'm not a citizen of Germany). This one
> > "extraordinary" case doesn't bind a court in any way.
> 
> An American court could believe that a German free-rider is depriving
> American inventors of the fruit of their work and that that is not covered
> by free speech and that, since the main damage is occurring within the US,
> the American court is entitled to pass a verdict.

No, Hartmut. A German citizen can simply say to US judges, that 
they got stuffed. The American standards of 'free speech' don't 
bother European courts. If they did, Americans could, for example, 
ban the 'obscene speech' servers in Europe (it's illegal in most of 
US states, but it's perfectly legal in most of European states). 
"Obscene speech" simply is the common, generic porn we may 
buy at a kiosk in Poland or Germany; it is NOT the child porn, 
bestial porn or real violent porn. Still, it's illegal in USA. And, so 
what ??

By analogy, the American company Yahoo! has competely 
neglected the French court's ruling, even though they are being 
fined a lot of US bucks a day. And, so what? Jurisdiction is 
jurisdiction. They can't overstep it -- it would be invasion.
  
    Yours in Liberty,
        Critto

*****************************************************************
            Krzysztof (Christopher) "Critto" Sobolewski
e-mail:critto@wp.pl, liberter@poczta.wp.pl
www:www.critto.prv.pl, www.libertaryzm.prv.pl
http://www.critto.prv.pl/antycenz.zero-cenz-faq.htm
  -> ZERO TOLERANCJI DLA (panstwowej) CENZURY!!! (FAQ)
*****************************************************************
PS. Nie mam nic wspolnego z firmami, na ktorych serwerach
 mam swoje domeny, strony www i konta e-mail, poza
 posiadaniem ich u nich
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