Re: Re(2): flow chart for a law [was: Re(2): [Patents] newsscan: Software patent limits 'go too far']

[Jean-Baptiste Soufron <jbsoufron@free.fr>]

> > Is innovation the only point to take in consideration?
> 
> Of course not.

Cool, we agree on it :-)

> > What about the judicial security of software industry?
> 
> No software patents increases judicial security.

This is to demonstrate. 

I know there is an article from my old french professor (Nicolas
Polleau-Dulian) which is exactly talking about "the interpretations of
the EPO and judicicial security". I will try to get it and give you an
abstract, ok?
 
> Software patents turns software developers into cows eating grass on a
> mine-field. Every so often you have cow-tchup.

Hum, please, don't get emotionnal :-)
 
> >  What about the
> > interest of trade as patents allow an easy licensing system? etc.
> > etc. 
> 
> In what is software patent licencing any easier that copyright based
> licensing? I don't understand this. In copyright you don't even have
> to do anything, just license.

Well, the argument in favor of patents would be to say that author's
right are often vague. It's difficult to say when someone is infringing
your right because  protection is granted to "original" material and not
to "new" material like in patents. Plus, the patent in itself is often
seen as a proof of you right that will facilitate your trade.

Try to find other arguments in favor of patents on that point, it's
important to see the problem globally.
 
> > I think innovation is one point but if you stand to this argument,
> > people will just tell you that there are other interests that
> > justify patents even if it's negative for innovation. This argument
> > simply means that, for people who value innovation, patents should
> > be a bad thing. 
> 
> For people wanting a free market, it is a bad thing.

Well, author's right also work as a monopoly system. It's not a free
market system in any way! Except if people decides to leave their
creation to the public but they can also do it with the patent system. 

> For people wanting cheaper solutions to their problems, it is a bad
> thing.

... This is also to demonstrate because even with patents, if you don't
make the deposit, nobody else can and your invention is still protected.
You just can't trade it as easily as with patents. 

> For people wanting the freedom to create, it is a bad thing.

That's for sure but the author's right is not better on that point
either since it's also a monopoly system!

> > You must answer to people who will say they don't care about
> > innovation but they want security, trade, legal consistency,
> > whatever... 
> 
> Security: no software patents means you'll never be sued for any of
> the potential hundreds of thousands of ideas in a full computer
> program
>     == increased security.

Not sure about it. With author's right system, I can always sue you for
faking my software. Plus as I said before, it's probably more
complicated to tell which one increases judicial security the most. 

> Trade: no software patents mean that it is a free market, where a
> ratio of best/cheaper solutions benefit society as a whole
>     == trade is improved.

Author's right also works as a monopoly, and it's longer and harder than
patents. I think that you're right on this point because reverse
engineering is allowed. I am not sure about it. 
 
> Legal Consistency: an EU Directive reaffirming Art. 52 (among other
> things) creates legal consistency in the EU member-states.
>     == the laws will be more similar

Yeah, but I meant that it's important to have a legal consistency
between the software protection system and the rest of the legal system,
not between EU member states :-)

> Whatever: please give more details for me to debunk as well.

Well, as long as nobody take it personnaly... 
I really think it's important to push our arguments against software
patents the furthest we can! I hope all of you understand it that way.
Of course it looks like a huge troll and I am sorry for it :-)

Jean-Baptiste Soufron
CNRS - CERSA Paris 2
http://soufron.free.fr